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EarendilNov 28, 10:32 AMWell, you just made my point better than me. Of the millions of Macs sold, how many are to customers needing correct color and really care about the finer details of the monitor's specs?
I have both the Dell and the Apple cinema display 20".
But who cares? A very small percentage of Apple's market cares or could even tell the difference.
And that percentage shoots up when you take into account only the Pro style Towers. And it's a shame your Cinema display is showing age sooner than I would think it should. Still, in my own experience with color reproduction and accuracy in Photography, the cinema displays I have used have exceeded my Dell 2005. In regular computer use I wouldn't be able to tell them apart (aside from the back light bleed on the Dell).
If Apple has been all about getting "switchers" and trying to persuade Windows users that Apple and OS X is better, than why is Apple ignoring that market with their monitor offering? You said so yourself, these are "PRO" monitors. Because they want you to buy iMacs. That's an extremely limited choice if you ask me. Oh, I can hear the fan boys now, screw you if you don't care about color seperation and the finer details of image quality. Go buy your $hi+ dell and get off of this board.
Do you see any fan boys making posts here? I see some people here that are ignorant of the way monitors work and yet are trying to pass opinions on Apple/Dell/LCD market as gold though.
That's the issue though, currently Apple doesn't sell a consumer computer that either doesn't already come with a monitor, or where you aren't supposed to already have a monitor.
the MacBook and iMac both have screens built in, the MacMini, if you saw any of it's advertisements or presentation, is meant as a direct replacement for a PC box. i.e. bring your own mouse, keyboard and monitor. I as well as another guy have already said this though.
It's a problem, still, I want too want Apple to sell a consumer level monitor. But Apple certainly doesn't have to enter that market if they don't want to. Besides, the market for a cheap 17" monitor is TINY. You're talking Mini owners (who don't already have a monitor) maybe a few laptop owners, and...? G5 owners? If you're plugin a $150 LCD up to a G5 you should be shot :P Unless you are running three at once or something.
Apple sells a consumer mini, but not a consumer monitor? Why not? You all are hammering away at the professional quality of this monitor. But I have both the Dell and the Apple and they look about the same to me. Actually, before Apple updated their monitors the 20" looked terrible next to the Dell. (I have both generations) And are the "Pros" who need that color perfection buying 20" monitors? Probably not. 23" and 30" would be my guess. So why have a high priced 20" display?
Many professionals run Duel 20" screens. In fact I see this setup far more often that a 30" screen.
So all this hupla about color correction is making my point. Apple wants you to buy an iMac and they keep their monitors price high and limit their computer offerings to give you the incentive to buy one.
wow wow wow. You just me on that logic jump. Apple sells some high end systems to Professions in industry that demand at least a certain standard. Apple also sells other computers. Apple Sells monitors that are aiming at (hitting is another matter) those professionals that demand a certain standard. Apple doesn't currently sell any other monitors. How is that proof that Apple is trying to personally screw you out of your cash?
Since that's all they sell they are making a good profit off of them. Don't get me wrong, they are nice computers, beautiful even, but what if I wan't something more flexable? Maybe a little more expandible. My choice is a $600 mini (not too flexable or expandable) or a $2400 Mac Pro. Big Difference. Oh, that $1499 price spot fits nicely with an iMac however. See my point?
Yeah, there is a gap, and I do see it as a problem. No one in the entire thread is disagreeing with that. You ideas on why there is a gap is viewed a little bit more negative than I would, but whatever.
If they lower the price of the 20" any more it will cut into their sales of 20" iMacs. And that is why it's hovering close to $700 and not $200 or $300 cheaper.
Another huge jump in logic based on no facts and stretched assumptions. Do you know what Apple takes home at the end of the day from each monitor sale, each iMac sale, and each Mini sale? Can you provide that data to back up any of your conclusions? It sure would go a long way in getting anyone to side with you on that point. However, until you do, I'm going to say this one more time:
Cinema Display = Pro quality Display (I don't give a hoot if your eyes can't see it, the components alone show it, and that is what cost money to make not your eye sight)
Pro Quality = not cheap, don't go looking for a $200 monitor for pro work.
And for the last time, I'm still waiting for someone to show me a display that matches the Cinemas tech specs and qualifications and also cost downwards in the $400 range that people keep speaking about. Because until someone does, I'm inclined to believe, based on my own looking, that Apple is right with the industry on this one (or close) and all our whining on cost means jack.
So, comfort yourself all you want that you have a "pro" quality monitor. If that makes you feel better parting with $300 then go for it.
In light of that little sarcastc jab, the irony is that you are one of, if not the only user, to have admitted to owning a 20" Cinema display in this thread so far :rolleyes:
[quote]I doubt you could tell the differnce with both monitors sitting side by side. I have both and I can't realy see a $200 - $300 price justification, at least at the low end. Oh, I'm just a poor consumer, not a "pro", so I should go buy my crappy Dell and be happy. Right?
I'll just quote myself on this one...
[QUOTE=Earendil]You seem to be coming at me as if I stand on some high ground, when in fact I own (as stated in my signature) a 20" wide Dell monitor
So just trust me when I say that the difference in my Photographs, and Photo editing on my Dell vs an Apple monitor is different, and a noticeable difference not just in color, but in back lighting and change in color based on viewing angle. When I'm surfing the web I don't notice/care, or playing games, or just about anything else. And since I don't make money on my photos, or do too much printing, I went with the Dell because the price/benefits ratio did not justify the Apple monitor. I wish Apple had provided a consumer level monitor for me to buy, it would go far better with my Powerbook, but they didn't. I'm not going to discount their current line up just because I can't afford it, and I don't think you should discount it just because you don't understand it technically.
But if you had been following the thread you'd know that about me already...
But if Apple really want's to get people to switch in larger numbers they need to offer a little more choice at a competitive price. A nice quality 20" monitor competitvly priced to go with that mini or a mid-range tower. I'm asking Apple to drop their price on their monitors $200 and offer a $1200 - $1500 tower. Is that asking too much?
No, you are asking for two very different things here.
1. You are asking Apple to produce a consumer level monitor that you can afford and falls in line with the market. I think everyone agrees with this idea, whether there is a large enough market for Apple to justify it (only Aple costumers would consider them) is up for debate.
2. You are asking Apple to drop the price on their Pro displays without giving a reason (all your reasons apply to a consumer LCD), nor have you provided a similarly speced display to show that Apple is out of line with it's pricing.
There are large difference between a Mini and a G5. Just because most people wouldn't notice it doesn't mean it isn't there. Just relax and trust me that in two properly functioning displays, Apple's monitors are very good, and imho should never be compared to Apple's displays unless you are trying to convince a consumer (who can't tell the difference) not to buy it and buy an alternative display. I have done this before. Just like you'd never compare a Mini and a G5 unless grandma was thinking about buying a G5 to surf the web with...
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neko girlMar 20, 11:38 AMSeveral court rulings have placed the rights of Gay people above the rights of people holding religious beliefs.
I'm all for the distribution of the app on grounds of free speech (which may or may not apply to a curated app store like Apple's). However, I do like the ignorant statement you just made here, that I've quoted.
Can you give me an example where the basic RIGHTS of a religious person was violated by upholding gay rights?
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M-LifeAug 29, 12:45 PMIt seems that if this rumor is correct, then why now? Why not 2 months ago? Have mini sales been all that great to warrant holding off on a simple update? Or could they possibly have been waiting for other products to move to merom so the mini doesn't infringe? I just don't understand why this has taken so long.
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Full of WinApr 12, 08:31 PMHere comes Super Final Cut Express (SFCE)...
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islandersDec 27, 09:35 PMI�m waiting on buying a HD DVD or BlueRay until the price comes down, so I could see iTV offering a HD alternative, and filling that niche.
Two premium channels cost $20 a month so iTV would sell you the device to steam movies, some broadcast, download like Tivo, so you wouldn�t need a Blueray or HD DVD.
What else could be practical? Of course it will have a hard drive� a cable box DVR has a hard drive.
If it also has the ability to surf the web and run a word processor, handle video from DVR and digital camera, I�ll get one�
That is if the price is about $500.
Some unanswered questions are where are they going to get the bandwidth to do all this? You will have to have a cable subscription, perhaps just a basic subscription, but even then bandwidth is limited.
They will need their own satellite, if they really want to compete. But that would make them iDish? hmmm
This could be very interesting. I have often wondered why all the cable companies and satellite companies are within $5 pricing difference of each other? Is this the rock bottom competitive price so they can break even or are these prices fixed?
I would love to get rid of so many commercials. I�m paying $78 a month for basic digital subscription and have to use a DVR to record programs so I can zap though the commercials.
Obviously I don�t know what the limitiatoins are here for an iCast or iDish, and anticipate something like a TiVo that can surf the web, upload video, and download HD.
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bigmc6000Jul 18, 09:34 AMIn the music business, Apple has taken advantage of people's willingness to give up some sound quality (ie MP3 and AAC formats) in exchange for ease of use in buying and using the music. I don't expect the movie service to offer HD, at least not for most movies. I expect they'll do the same thing they did with music-- actually offer slightly LOWER resolution than DVD in exchange for a very convenient package.
That's how Apple got the music industry on-board, and it would offer a great story to the movie studios, who are constantly worried that the higher and higher quality formats mean they're "giving away their masters". Instead, people may be very willing to buy lower quality copies as long as it's extremely convenient.
Most people can't hear the difference between MP3 and AAC (or just don't care) and that's mainly because of low quality headphones but believe me if you're going to be selling movies you better have some decent resolution because people are going to plug their laptops/minis/media centers into their TV's and watch the movies. I was just watching some TV's I ripped from one of my DVD's last night and it looked ok with my 1080i 42" screen but I also tried playing one of my iTunes shows on my HD TV and it looked pretty crappy. I can understand watching TV shows on your CPU/iPod but if you go after movies they are going to be on the TV and the resolution better not be crap or else it'll be noticeable and nobody will buy it.
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aross99Apr 2, 09:28 PMActually that is why it does work. Because it isn't steel and lasers. If you go back and watch the ad again at least twice there were medical tech references and at least one 'learning' tech. Apple is pushing these types of things to get rid of the 'it's a toy, talk. And the folks that decide to put iPads in a hospital or a school are often older folks and zippy steel etc doesn't appeal to them
I think you missed the "sarcasm tag" in the post...
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danielwsmitheeNov 27, 05:19 PM... I haven't seen many dvi's, it amazes me that most consumer monitors are still vga. price = quality when it comes to apple.Um where have you been looking. Look at all of these with DVI (http://www.compusa.com/products/products.asp?N=200049+4294965732+502399&Ne=502396&cm_re=A%2D%5F%2DHPF%2D%5F%2DFlat+Panel+%28LCD%29&Cn=Monitors_Flat_Panel_LCD).
The competitors all use the exact same component as the Apple display even the same model number LCD from the same supplier the difference is the certification process the apple goes through for there color no difference in hardware just a procedure that is run. The fact is a year ago you paid $100 now your paying $300 for a the Apple display over a general consumer display. Apple may not have many competitors in the pro-color display market but they are still competing against the general consumer prices.
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toddybodyApr 19, 02:52 PMWirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-gb) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)
True dat ... This is going to be my first iMac ... I have never owned an apple computer before .. Bought my first iPhone last year
... iPhone 4 ... That was such a wonderful day ... Can't wait
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Lord BlackadderMar 7, 01:34 PMAll this said, I've never needed any additive myself, car is never garaged, and has never failed to start as of yet.
A neighbor of mine drives a ratty looking 4th generation Jetta TDI. She has it on an engine block heater, not sure what she does to prevent gelling but it works just fine, and we've had sustained temperatures well below -10F.
So while it may require steps to be taken to prevent fuel gelling, diesels will run just fine at very low temperatures.
Was only a young kid when that Focus was around.......
Anyway, when the current US Focus debuted back in 1999 I believe it was, it wasn't a bad car. In typical bad Ford fashion, it was left to rot on the vine. It got a heavy redesign/MCE for the 2008/9 MY I believe it was, but it was too late. The 2012 Focus is so much better. Although I prefer the Chevy Cruze.
My brother has a Mk1 3-door hatch Focus with the 2.0L Zetec four, and while I'm not a huge fan of the driving position I think is a great little car and miles ahead of what GM was making at the time. Unfortunately, Ford kept the Mk1 for sale in the US (with only facelifts) for way too long, and towards the end of its run it was pretty dated. The new one is a very nice car, and the arrival of the Fiesta really strengthens Ford's small-car lineup.
I imagine that Ford will be keeping an eye on GM's diesel Cruze (if it happens) to gauge popularity. A diesel Focus or Fiesta would be a good addition to the lineup. I may be wrong, but I think that Ford uses their own diesel engine in the European Focus.
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weckartApr 11, 06:53 AMThat said, VW/Audi`s DSG semi auto`s are excellent.
Agreed and it has transformed my view of autos. I can't change as slickly as the DSG manages in my Audi. That being said, it still needs a bit of help coming into roundabouts or sharp bends and I miss having a biting point when stopping at traffic lights uphill. Fuel economy is as good as a manual, surprisingly enough.
Currently driving an auto Mercedes, whilst mine is in the workshop. Nowhere near as slick.
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ann713Feb 24, 01:08 AM^Holy timg!
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FrobozzMar 25, 09:40 AMNop... consider.
2x CPUs 130W rated. So thats 260W, right there. However, no CPU consumes the rated, so it's give or take ~260W.
Each 5770 is ~108W, given two, that's ~216 W. Right off the bat we have ~476 W being consumed. Not bad; however let's look at the side where its not a dual 5770 setup.
The PSU on the Mac Pro is rated for 980 W of power, but for simplicity sake let's say 1 kW. Now, factor in the Super drive, Ethernet, Airport, at least 1 HDD and peripheral docks/cards you are looking at ~100 W. Take into account a 20 W per 1GB of memory (assume 6GB) and you've got ~120 W more. So far ~ 220 W more.
Now we have ~480 W [~260W + ~220W]consumption leaving only ~520 W left for a GPU. Currently, the HD 6970 requires 2x 8-pin connectors to provide 150 W per pin. That's 300W right off. So we are left with ~220 W in the system. Now, factor in that PCIe slot power draw at 75 W and we've got a ~145 W left over. ~145 W is cutting it too close and something will yield (yes I do realize 145 W is a lot more, but read on). Now, the sad part, we were assuming 1kW PSU which is not the case; it's 980 W meaning there will be less power, ~125 W. Now, also take into consideration no PSU is 100% efficient, hence there will be greater power outlet draw and the PSU will be operating at high voltage/amps and its life span will decrease dramatically over very high usage.
In other words the current PSU may come up short. Add to that the fact that all current shipping and past model Mac Pros don't have extra dual 8-pin connectors. They have dual 6-pins. There is an adapter to make a 6-pin into an 8-pin, but it is risky at best, big no-no.
So as you can see an HD 6970 would be barely supported on current models. Future models? Perhaps yes assuming Apple bumps to 1.1kW or 1.2kW PSU.
Take into account this was calculated assuming 6GB of memory and 1 HDD, anymore RAM (20 W/1GB) or HDDs (10W/disc) and the consumption will go up. Also, assuming nothing is hooked up to peripheral ports; like a small external drive that draws 5-10 W.
I have an 850 watt PSU in my gaming rig with a 4870x2 and custom coolers all around on the CPU, GPU, and case. I think your calculations are pretty close to correct if you wanted to run everything in the case at once. But that's not typical to run everything at max all at once. I suppose Apple might not want to get in the business of telling people it's okay to buy this honking huge GPU as long as you're not running a lot of extra hard drives and extra PCI-E cards.
But, for people looking to simply drop in a fast GPU and not have a lot of extra bells and whistles (read: a gaming rig), they would be fine with 850 watts or so, even with a 6970. Or at least damn close.
The tricky part with GPU's is that the high end units commonly exceed rated specifications at max load, so these calculations are tricky. And your point about running too close to your max is also a good one. It's fair to say that when you add up all your max dissipation, add 20% or so, and that's the wattage your PSU needs.
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aiqw9182Apr 12, 09:03 PMThat's actually pretty funny.
What's pretty funny is that you're bitching about a layout complaint that's been rectified with an option since last October.
To see more: New Era Hats
-SD-Mar 24, 04:45 PMPutting a 6970 in the Pro sounds like a fantastic idea. Might do it this weekend.
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XapplimaticApr 4, 05:05 PMI have to agree with all the other posters who say Apple doesn't need saving. It was saved the moment Steve stepped back in the door. It's profits haven't been higher in years and its market direction never more positive. Apple's market share is increasing again and profits are up 33% year over year... so what exactly is in need of saving?
Go save Gateway.. they're the ones closing stores instead of opening them... lol
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AppliedVisualOct 24, 01:33 AMNope - Santa Rosa won't arrive until March or April, and that's when the next major upgrade will be made.
Which is all the more reason to be fairly sure a C2D update is imminent. And we probably shouldn't expect too much from this update...
I'm expecting Apple to have addressed cooling issues through better heatsinks combined with better fan control software, possibly better fans too. The 160GB HD should be added as a CTO option as it's available for the Mini, but don't expect any change to the overall design or a new HD bay. Possibly faster DVD writers, but don't expect DL support for the 15" MBP or MB. Just about everything else that people keep wishing for is probably out of the question until a major overhaul takes place.
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longofestNov 29, 01:37 PMIt's true then; Apple are releasing a toilet with an iPod dock! SWEET!!!! :eek:
Actually, I was thinking they were working on a car ;)
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timerollsonFeb 20, 03:03 PMsnip
What speakers and how's the bass on them?
HecubusProSep 1, 01:43 PMI would laugh (because I'm mean like that) if the iMac 23" or iMac with Conroe took a long time to come out. So many of us MBP lovers have been waiting for Merom, and to see others squirm like us... muah hahaha
I 2nd that comment! Though the idea of having a MBP with merom and a 23" iMac with merom makes me feel all tingly inside. Apple cannot make these products available fast enough. :)
atlanticzaJan 12, 03:56 AMAlfa MiTo
Charlie SheenMar 24, 01:04 PMnext step amd cpus
LollypopAug 7, 05:40 AMFinish work at 5.30pm - 1 hour of 5-a-side footy (6.00 - 7.00pm) - drive home, eat & shower by 7.30pm - turn on Mac, log into MacRumors (hopefully it'll be running!) - and laugh at all you silly bugger's who have to spend �1000's on a new Mac and display :p
It is funny reading about how people all of a sudden HAVE to get something, or are upset about how their investment is now worthless or if apple will let them exchange their recently bouth XXX for the new model. :rolleyes:
I would love to be able to see some of the demos of leopard, I expect a lot of it, and screenshots wont work this time!
BuschmasterApr 3, 12:57 PMBest ad since the Think Different campaign!
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